To put it bluntly,
I'm pro abortion.
If you don't want the baby, get it aborted.
Simple as.
It's a womans right to decide whether she wants an abortion or not.
What's the point of brining a baby into the world if it's unwanted?

Something to think about.

My mom's mum had four kids when she got pregnant again, pre Roe vs Wade. It being illegal meant nothing, and she got so desperate she drove down to Mexico and had an abortion there, and nearly bled to death because of how badly the procedure was done.

Point in telling this is, it won't matter if abortion is legal or not, because someone will get desperate and do it on their own or get it done illegally and unsafely. Shouldn't we care about the potential mother's health as much as the fetus?

I believe that it's the choice of the woman in question. No one else should ever be able to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body, and I'm not going to take someone else's freedom of choice away from them.

There's a Catholic girl who goes to my school, and of course she's pro-life. But she's just so damn nice about it that I love her. She believes that her beliefs are her own, and though, personally she thinks it's wrong, she's not going to interfere in someone else's life and tell them what's best for them.
Go her.
I find it amazing and admirable that she's confident enough in her beliefs that she can let other people have theirs.

I have a developing, but mostly complete, opinion on abortion.

I'm against it for a variety of reasons, and even though i'm Catholic, my faith isn't really the reason.

First off, if a woman is raped, financially or physically inable to care for a child, or could die giving child birth, i don't frown upon it so much. Our foster care system is so bad that i consider it to be on par with abortion. Seriously. The system sucks so bad.

Anyways, if someone is financially able to care for a child and gets pregnant, i think they should keep it. One argument that upsets me so much is, "By having a fetus stay in me, it is violating my bodily integrity. I never consented to allow it to leach off my life." To me it seems as if the person is trying to illogically justify an abortion through this. When you consent to sex, you consent to the possibility of getting pregnant. It's like playing sports...generally you have to sign a contract saying, "By playing this sport, i consent to the fact that i could become injured." You don't play football and get a broken ankle and be like, "I DID NOT CONSENT FOR THIS TO HAPPEN!" People need to take responsibility for their actions.

However, IF someone is going to have an abortion (because though i have strong opinions about the subject matter) i will never tell someone what they can do with their body unless it falls into the following circumstance:

Pre third trimester abortions are okay, i think (well, more okay in my opinion). but abortions in the third trimester i don't think anyone should have an abortion. In the third trimester, the fetus is mostly developed and has fully developed organs and is almost prepared for birth. Anyone that aborts in the third trimester deserves to be shot, imho. If the child, especially, can have an emergency surgery to have birth before it's natural birth time...and can survive, i think that it should be considered murder to abort at that stage. However, there's so much of a gray area as to where exactly a fetus is capable of sustaining life outside the womb without testing it repeatedly that it would be hard to prosecute.

So yes, this is my developing opinion.

I think everyone, especially the idiot who doesn't use birth control or a condom, should be allowed the option of abortion. If they don't know to have safe sex in the first place, how the hell will they be able to raise a child? I'd fear for the child's wellbeing. The last thing we need is more idiots. I'd say adoption would be a good choice- But, we already have enough orphans in this world. It's crude.... But why bring more into it when it can be avoided? Yes, it's wrong, but it's all for the general wellfare of the world's population, right?

Originally Posted by S3c0nd Ch4nc3

I think everyone, especially the idiot who doesn't use birth control or a condom, should be allowed the option of abortion. If they don't know to have safe sex in the first place, how the hell will they be able to raise a child? I'd fear for the child's wellbeing. The last thing we need is more idiots. I'd say adoption would be a good choice- But, we already have enough orphans in this world. It's crude.... But why bring more into it when it can be avoided? Yes, it's wrong, but it's all for the general wellfare of the world's population, right?

This is a moronic argument. Let someone have the easy way out because they made a mistake? Wow, that's about the stereotype of an american. QUICK FIX! I screwed up, quick get rid of it so i can go on with my life!

I don't use condoms because i hate the feel, and i don't go on birth control because i have severe medicine allergies, and because i only trust a doctor to make medical decision like that with me (rather than planned parent hood that can't say, "oh, you're allergic to that? Well then don't take this BC, take this one!") and being Catholic, having birth control show up on my medical bill wouldn't be good for my mom. My boyfriend is aware that sperm + vagina with eggs = baby. We don't want to have a baby right now, it would rather suck as we're both in college still and can barely support ourselves (well i still live at home...) but if i got pregnant i'd get some freakin' guts to take responsibility over my actions and raise the kid. I think that abortion due to an inconvenience in your life is seriously a stupid argument. Idiots have given birth to some pretty smart people...and some pretty smart people have given birth to idiots. So unless you are going to personally screen (who made you God, you critical person you) everyone who is pregnant to say, "No, you're a moron. You're not allowed to procreate" how are you going to determine what an idiot is? An idiot in my mind is much different than an idiot in yours. As we're all flawed people, there's always going to be a group of people out there that think you and i are idiots. So by your theory, should we all have been aborted?

I completely agree with your position on this subject. Abortion should be limited to those who are most specifically in need. i.e.

-rape
-minors
-medical problems

If a pregnant woman was in danger of dying from cancer, radiation treatments would be necessary, but this would also mean killing her unborn baby.

In a situation like this i think it would be fine.

Rape, also would be a valid reason for abortion. If someone was raped and became pregnant, it is not their fault. What if they were unable to support a baby, or in terrible health?

Abortion would be the only way.

It depends on the situation, but i agree with you, Topic Creator.

Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

This is a moronic argument. Let someone have the easy way out because they made a mistake? Wow, that's about the stereotype of an american. QUICK FIX! I screwed up, quick get rid of it so i can go on with my life!

I don't use condoms because i hate the feel, and i don't go on birth control because i have severe medicine allergies, and because i only trust a doctor to make medical decision like that with me (rather than planned parent hood that can't say, "oh, you're allergic to that? Well then don't take this BC, take this one!") and being Catholic, having birth control show up on my medical bill wouldn't be good for my mom. My boyfriend is aware that sperm + vagina with eggs = baby. We don't want to have a baby right now, it would rather suck as we're both in college still and can barely support ourselves (well i still live at home...) but if i got pregnant i'd get some freakin' guts to take responsibility over my actions and raise the kid. I think that abortion due to an inconvenience in your life is seriously a stupid argument. Idiots have given birth to some pretty smart people...and some pretty smart people have given birth to idiots. So unless you are going to personally screen (who made you God, you critical person you) everyone who is pregnant to say, "No, you're a moron. You're not allowed to procreate" how are you going to determine what an idiot is? An idiot in my mind is much different than an idiot in yours. As we're all flawed people, there's always going to be a group of people out there that think you and i are idiots. So by your theory, should we all have been aborted?

And here we have yet another person who goes with the "pregnancy as the bad consequences of having sex" thing.

A child should be conceived by people who genuinely want to expend the time, money and energy to raise a child. It's not an easy undertaking. And it should NOT be a punishment for being careless.
Notice how the 'consequences' of sex almost always only affect the woman who has to first bear the child, and then in most cases, if her partner isn't interested in childcare, has to raise it alone. The whole 'silly people shouldn't have sex and then expect an abortion' thing only ends up affecting women - men don't get to face the 'consequences' of sex.

Idiot was perhaps a flippant word, but the fact remains - children shouldn't be a punishment for slipping up when having sex. For one thing, that's not going to lead to much of an upbringing for the child.

dysfunct!on: I refer you to my early posts on this issue. If abortion is justified in some cases, why not in less 'serious' ones? If you're allowed to remove a foetus when you didn't want to have sex, why shouldn't you be allowed to remove a foetus when you did want to have sex? Why should you be forced to bring up an unwanted child if it's 'your fault'?

Originally Posted by Spatterdash

And here we have yet another person who goes with the "pregnancy as the bad consequences of having sex" thing.

A child should be conceived by people who genuinely want to expend the time, money and energy to raise a child. It's not an easy undertaking. And it should NOT be a punishment for being careless.
Notice how the 'consequences' of sex almost always only affect the woman who has to first bear the child, and then in most cases, if her partner isn't interested in childcare, has to raise it alone. The whole 'silly people shouldn't have sex and then expect an abortion' thing only ends up affecting women - men don't get to face the 'consequences' of sex.

Idiot was perhaps a flippant word, but the fact remains - children shouldn't be a punishment for slipping up when having sex. For one thing, that's not going to lead to much of an upbringing for the child.

dysfunct!on: I refer you to my early posts on this issue. If abortion is justified in some cases, why not in less 'serious' ones? If you're allowed to remove a foetus when you didn't want to have sex, why shouldn't you be allowed to remove a foetus when you did want to have sex? Why should you be forced to bring up an unwanted child if it's 'your fault'?

It's not necessarly a punishment. Good can come out of an originally unwanted child. But what ever happened to taking responsibility for your actions?

Originally Posted by MelonyLouise

Something to think about.

My mom's mum had four kids when she got pregnant again, pre Roe vs Wade. It being illegal meant nothing, and she got so desperate she drove down to Mexico and had an abortion there, and nearly bled to death because of how badly the procedure was done.

Point in telling this is, it won't matter if abortion is legal or not, because someone will get desperate and do it on their own or get it done illegally and unsafely. Shouldn't we care about the potential mother's health as much as the fetus?

I guess that's true.
I don't think abortion should be illegal at all though.
I just don't want to encourage it.
I think people should think about wanting to get pregnant or not, if you don't want to get pregnant, use a condom or birth control.

Like my aunt, she's had like four abortions already.
God, it's not that hard to get birth control pills.
Seriously, people like that shouldn't be allowed to continue their reckless behavior.
There should be some rule for it, without banning it altogether.

Originally Posted by Arousal

I guess that's true.
I don't think abortion should be illegal at all though.
I just don't want to encourage it.
I think people should think about wanting to get pregnant or not, if you don't want to get pregnant, use a condom or birth control.

Like my aunt, she's had like four abortions already.
God, it's not that hard to get birth control pills.
Seriously, people like that shouldn't be allowed to continue their reckless behavior.
There should be some rule for it, without banning it altogether.

i think it should remain illegal in the third trimester is all.

Originally Posted by Kyoko Otonashi

This is a moronic argument. Let someone have the easy way out because they made a mistake? Wow, that's about the stereotype of an american. QUICK FIX! I screwed up, quick get rid of it so i can go on with my life!

I don't use condoms because i hate the feel, and i don't go on birth control because i have severe medicine allergies, and because i only trust a doctor to make medical decision like that with me (rather than planned parent hood that can't say, "oh, you're allergic to that? Well then don't take this BC, take this one!") and being Catholic, having birth control show up on my medical bill wouldn't be good for my mom. My boyfriend is aware that sperm + vagina with eggs = baby. We don't want to have a baby right now, it would rather suck as we're both in college still and can barely support ourselves (well i still live at home...) but if i got pregnant i'd get some freakin' guts to take responsibility over my actions and raise the kid. I think that abortion due to an inconvenience in your life is seriously a stupid argument. Idiots have given birth to some pretty smart people...and some pretty smart people have given birth to idiots. So unless you are going to personally screen (who made you God, you critical person you) everyone who is pregnant to say, "No, you're a moron. You're not allowed to procreate" how are you going to determine what an idiot is? An idiot in my mind is much different than an idiot in yours. As we're all flawed people, there's always going to be a group of people out there that think you and i are idiots. So by your theory, should we all have been aborted?

Oh, yeah, insult the opposite side with words like "moron". That really proves YOUR intelligence, doesn't it?

And it's not about letting the pregnant person get off scot-free. We're thinking of the kids. To come into the world with parents who are barely adults themselves - physically, mentally or whatever - is a bad idea. To come into the world with parents who just feel they HAD to have you around, is a bad idea.

We're also thinking of the mom to be. As I said, a desperate woman will get an abortion any way she can, even if the law says it's illegal.

Also, sometimes preventing an abortion isn't as easy as, "go on birth control you stupid whore." My mom, before my birth and even before my sister's, had tried every form of birth control out there, and she would inevitably get pregnant over and over again. Some women are just that way. And in fact, hearing of my mom's medical history in that sense makes me feel worthy of something. Hell, I was nearly gotten rid of. But I'm not angry about that, because something told my mom, keep this one. May sound funny, but it makes me feel like I'm here for something.

And I have to agree with the guy who made the point before, "if it can be allowed in some senses, why not others? Why the double standard?"

On an end note for this post, you really don't understand until you've been in their shoes. Imagine being my mom, in the late seventies and early eighties with my older sister, having left my sister's father while pregnant, being on welfare already trying to raise a little one, and then finding out you're pregnant. If that's the case then how could she afford the abortion? Hmm, $500 once (and that's gotta be an at most for now, not even thirty years ago), or money for food, clothes, housing, etc for 18 years continuously? Simply, you gotta put those alive before those that maybe will be alive if nature itself doesn't abort them for you.

Originally Posted by MelonyLouise

Oh, yeah, insult the opposite side with words like "moron". That really proves YOUR intelligence, doesn't it?

And it's not about letting the pregnant person get off scot-free. We're thinking of the kids. To come into the world with parents who are barely adults themselves - physically, mentally or whatever - is a bad idea. To come into the world with parents who just feel they HAD to have you around, is a bad idea.

We're also thinking of the mom to be. As I said, a desperate woman will get an abortion any way she can, even if the law says it's illegal.

Also, sometimes preventing an abortion isn't as easy as, "go on birth control you stupid whore." My mom, before my birth and even before my sister's, had tried every form of birth control out there, and she would inevitably get pregnant over and over again. Some women are just that way. And in fact, hearing of my mom's medical history in that sense makes me feel worthy of something. Hell, I was nearly gotten rid of. But I'm not angry about that, because something told my mom, keep this one. May sound funny, but it makes me feel like I'm here for something.

And I have to agree with the guy who made the point before, "if it can be allowed in some senses, why not others? Why the double standard?"

On an end note for this post, you really don't understand until you've been in their shoes. Imagine being my mom, in the late seventies and early eighties with my older sister, having left my sister's father while pregnant, being on welfare already trying to raise a little one, and then finding out you're pregnant. If that's the case then how could she afford the abortion? Hmm, $500 once (and that's gotta be an at most for now, not even thirty years ago), or money for food, clothes, housing, etc for 18 years continuously? Simply, you gotta put those alive before those that maybe will be alive if nature itself doesn't abort them for you.

I could care less what you think of my intelligence. My grades and job prove enough for me, kthx. I'll try to use some bigger words to make fun of someone's argument next time, k? Simple =/= stupid, btw. If implying that i'm stupid gets you through the day, good for you. I have better things to do with my life that involve my brain.

I've been raised next to a woman that was faced with a difficult time and chose to take responsibility for her actions. My grandmother is the single mother of 12 children that she raised in poverty. I agree with her when she says that women who sleep around and think, "Eh, i'll gouge my uterus out if there's an invoncenience" are weak and stupid. I've never been able to stand people that don't take responsibility for their actions. NEVER.

For me there's no double standard, less we're talking abortion in the third trimester. I think it should be considered murder, since by then the fetus (in the later weeks) is developed enough where it COULD in fact survive outside the womb if it had to. The others i frown upon, but i will never tell someone what they can do. Some instances just seem slightly more justified than the other.

While I don't believe that abortion would ever be an option for me, It's none of my business what other people do. We are supposed to live in a free society,and if that is the case then, to each his own.

I think abortion can be a great thing if you're doing it for the right reasons.

My mom has a friend who used abortion as birth control.I think that is totally wrong.

If your reason is good enough,then abortion is fine. :]

Single mother of 12? All the same father? Or does being a slut and having all the kids make you smarter?

Now that we've all been cunts, I'm done. This conversation isn't mature anymore.

Originally Posted by Nissa

I'm fine with it as long as it's not taking the place of a condom. Abortion isn't birth control, it's a last resort.

I agree. Abortion originally was for the women who weren't supposed to get pregnant or don't want to. However, now more and more people are making abortion a common thing, which shouldn't be allowed.

Personally, I believe that the fetus is a living organism, but not quite a human yet. But you still shouldn't just take it out of the womb like that because it will never be able to experience life. If it was up to me, I would give birth, the give it up for adoption.

Most of the people who's against it have never been in that situation, and probably never will, so what right do they have to bash and talk trash about abortion? It's the person's right to make that choice, and they should be able to have that choice instead of having to go through the pains of giving birth to the child then having to give it away.

I think that it should be a womans choice what she does with her body. Yes, abortion is killing a potential life, but it isnt officially alive until it pops out of your belly and breathes its first breath.

I know it sounds cold, but what the hell does a 16 year old want with a baby? Say a condom broke or something and now this girl, barely more than a child, is stuck with a child herself. She cant take care of a baby, she is still living with her parents. She will regret that child, she will feel like it ruined her life. She will always think of everything she could have done with her life if that baby hadn't been born.

Not even thinking about the mother, what about the child? Say that it's a rape-baby; The mother has to live with that traumatic event for the rest of her life as it is, not only that, but she has a daily reminder. That child would be able to feel that. The resentment and the anger would fuck up the kid for life.

No child should have to live in an environment where it isnt wanted. A child should be a blessing, not a curse. Children should be a miracle and a cause of happiness, not something you regret for the rest of your life.

Originally Posted by Viki

I think that it should be a womans choice what she does with her body. Yes, abortion is killing a potential life, but it isnt officially alive until it pops out of your belly and breathes its first breath.

I know it sounds cold, but what the hell does a 16 year old want with a baby? Say a condom broke or something and now this girl, barely more than a child, is stuck with a child herself. She cant take care of a baby, she is still living with her parents. She will regret that child, she will feel like it ruined her life. She will always think of everything she could have done with her life if that baby hadn't been born.

Not even thinking about the mother, what about the child? Say that it's a rape-baby; The mother has to live with that traumatic event for the rest of her life as it is, not only that, but she has a daily reminder. That child would be able to feel that. The resentment and the anger would fuck up the kid for life.

No child should have to live in an environment where it isnt wanted. A child should be a blessing, not a curse. Children should be a miracle and a cause of happiness, not something you regret for the rest of your life.

That is so true. Samara in "The Ring" was somewhat like that too. She was able to feel the father's resentment towards her.

Originally Posted by Aya_san

That is so true. Samara in "The Ring" was somewhat like that too. She was able to feel the father's resentment towards her.

I haven;t known them, they were friends of my friends who end there lifes before I could even meet them. But for some, the resentment is so strong that suicide is the option to the abortion there parents never had for them.

But why force a child into an unloving, un-prepared family> Do those who wish to make abortions illegal hate children that much? Adoption sounds all fun and nice, but unless one has a white, healthy baby ad known the soon to be Adopters, most likely tat child with spend the rest of their life in the system, till they are kicked out at age of 18.

Originally Posted by MelonyLouise

Single mother of 12? All the same father? Or does being a slut and having all the kids make you smarter?

Now that we've all been cunts, I'm done. This conversation isn't mature anymore.

Excuse me? I really resent you calling my grandmother a slut. It was all by the same man. They were married and he died of throat cancer.

It turned immature when you walked in. I made fun of an ARGUMENT you insulted a person, repeatedly. Please leave the debate so we can get back to some useful debating without you

I agree with Arousal. Abortion should be used in some cases but shouldn't be used as a birth control. To use it as such shows that the person is not responsible enough to make sure that they use a condom or some other type of birth control. Abortion should be the woman's own choice NOT some government person or other people. What a person does with their own body is no ones concern for it does not affect them personally. People who are pro-life always say that they could give the baby up for adoption, but after nine months in the womb, having the baby near you and living off you (like a leach) you can't help grow attach to the baby and end up keeping it. Abortion should also not become illegal. Look what happened in the USA when it did become illegal. Women would shove bike spokes just to get rid of the kid. Abortion should be used responcibly.

Well.
Obviously it /is/ killing.
But some people really can't handle it.
Some girls when they're pregnant are like, thirteen, and their bodies can't even provide a healthy place for the baby, and so it might have severe birth defects and ruin the girls life.
Sure, they can put it up for adoption and stuff, and they'd probably feel guilty both ways.
I think it's the girl's personal decision.
I don't think we should illegalize it or anything, because some people's lives can be really screwed up because of having children.
I don't think people should be able to abuse it and think they can just sleep with whoever they want and if they get pregnant they can just get an abortion.
There should be a limit or something.
Or if you need to get one you have to get a petition from the court or something.
I don't know.
I'm not that smart.
I'm a guy.

I am not going to tell you that you shouldn't abort or not however I will tell you this:

Personally, my belief is that the baby's life begins just as the egg is fertilized, and science has proven that fact. Therefore, once your egg's fertilized, the kid already started her/his life and is processing in her life cycle. Therefore, no matter what your decisions are... aborting a live organism does snuff out her life is same as stabbing a 5 years old kid or shooting a 30 years old man. I do not believe in reincarnation, so the child cannot live in this world again because her mommy loved her own life more than the baby or didn't believe in her baby overcoming the hardships thrown at her and become successful in the life, which is proven by many people who grew up in bad environment but overcame it.

The fact that it would complicate the girl/woman or baby's life is no excuse to me, the baby SHOULD be adopted.

The only reason I might condone abortion is if it will result in death of BOTH baby and mother (especially when mother has other kids).

I think it should be up to the woman. However, it's
not something I would personally do, ever.