I decided to actually read some of the poems in the poetry forum tonight. I just need to rant a little now!

• Rhyming does not make it a poem! I know that people have this notion that poems must always rhyme, but only certain types of poems rhyme. If you're not trying for a certain pattern, you don't have to make everything rhyme! Not writing a sonnet or limerick? Then feel free to ignore rhymes for a while. It'll still be a poem, I promise.

• Poetry doesn't mean
  making really
  short lines.
  You can make
  a poem
  with longer
  lines.
  It will only
  add to your poem,
  not subtract.
  Really.
  In case you noticed,
  this is not
  a poem.

• Being obscure and vague does not make your poem more meaningful. If you're not sure what you're saying, you're not really saying anything at all. It just makes your poem inaccessible and fools some people into thinking that you know what you're doing. Everyone else will realize that you have no clue and don't know what poetry is.

• Being dark does not mean you're being deep. Not every poem about death is full of depth and meaning.

Ok, that's off my chest, so now for some discussion. In addition to my little rant, let's talk about this too:
- What kind of poems do you like to read and why?
- What particular things will attract you or turn you off to a poem?
- Do you write poetry yourself and if so, what kind?

I like e.e. cummings. There's some other stuff, but to be honest it's hard to remember. Actually, does Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner count as poetry? Because that was amazing.

Poetry is not something I enjoy. I went through my 'dark poetry man I'm awesome' phase just like everyone else. But once that was over, I realized that DAMN real poetry is hard and I don't have the patience for it. =\
I'll write two hundred pages of stupid fantasy novel before I'll even TOUCH poetry. Whenever I need a prayer or some such for the various gods in my pantheon, I just ask someone else for help. xD

You're a brave soul venturing into the poetry forum. I feel so useless in there. I have nothing constructive to say to anyone. =[

I cannot stand poetry that doesn't rhyme. I know a majority of the world formally disagrees, but in my own eye it's the lazy-man's version of poetry. Mind you, throwing lines together with rhyming words isn't exactly appealing either.

I don't read too much poetry, I'm more of a novel kind of person, and I'm a tough critic so it's hard to find a poem I like amongst the many I read.

People always say my poetry is amazing, but I frankly can't stand it. It's a rare day I write a poem, and they always end up so bleak and depressing I want nothing to do with them. They always make people cry, and I want people to enjoy my work in other ways than tears. xD It just makes me feel like I'm doing poorly.

When I do write, I prefer sonnets. There's something about them that I enjoy muchly.

I mostly like the beat poets, but also some of the romantics as well. I'd have to say some of my favorites are "Constantly risking absurdity" by Lawrence Ferlinghetti and Ozymandias by Percy Byshhe Shelley. However, one of my favorite tools is internal rhyme. I also like stuff like this Bob Dylan song (which is practically a poem):

Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child's balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying.

I rarely ever rhyme in my poetry, but it IS a pet peeve of mine to see someone who thinks being dark and twisted, or rhyming, will make them into a better poet. Sometimes my poetry may seem vague, but it has a lot of meaning if someone perchance, reads
in
between
the
lines.

I completely agree with this. I hate those that consider the only good poetry is that which rhymes. But also, I dislike it when people ignore forms and only write free/blank verse.

Does anyone here even know what a meter is?

Aside from that I hate poetry that uses kindercare language, has very little to no imagry at all, and just completely disreguards the poetic devices and then turns around and says my critiques on their poetry is wrong.

POETRY IS ABOUT EXPRESSING YOUR FEELINGS, BUT IN AN ACTUAL ARTISTIC WAY!!! This is not poetry::

I hate my life.
It sucks like nothing else.
My parents yelled at me
and I school is dumb.
yada yada yada.

I don't care if your dog died. I don't care that mommy doesn't like you. I don't even care if you really care. I'm not here to give you sympathy. I'm here to become a published writer and to help you become something better than the senseless dribble you write in your journal or the stupid cliches you read. If you read something somewhere else such as : "stick that in your juicebox and suck it", then it's not fit to place in your poem unless you spice it up bit like: "stick that in your adam's apple and breathe..." See the difference??



Now that I'm done ranting. What I like in poetry is something to draw me in. Poetry that not only tells me of the subject, but portrays it too using rich imagry, metaphors, similes, and the like. I like proper grammer, unless the form can't really use it like with some free verse. I just enjoy real, good poetry.

@Nolori - I think everybody goes through a "dark" poetry phase. We all think we're so deep and meaningful. *shakes head* Ah, the follies of youth.

I was only in the poetry forum by chance and I left a note on one poem, then went through a few more. I do feel rather brave for it XD Most people didn't respond at all. They probably all got their feelings hurt. >_>

@Bleak Banter - I'm going to have to step all over your opinion here. Following your criteria, a limerick is more artistic than a haiku, because limericks rhyme and haikus don't. And as I said, rhyming alone doesn't make it a poem. Most people don't even bother with rhyme patterns when they make their so-called poems. It's all. ABABAB or AA BB AA BB. Blech. I'll take a well composed meaningful non-rhyming poem over a rhyming piece of drek any day of the week.

@Feral Fantom - I do enjoy some of the beat poets, which is funny, because I don't really care for the other beat literature I've read like On the Road by Jack Kerouac. Ugh.

@Teddie - That's what happens when you don't pay attention in school huh? You get these notions of things in your head that are just wrong.

@Lovers Never Tell - Apparently some people hate variety. It's the spice of life though! D:

I think the main reasons people post poetry here on Mene are for gold. Just to have a big long post to get gold from. And for attention. Lookit meeeee. Lookit meeee! I R Poet! :D

Why yes, I am a very cynical person XD

I R POET N I RITE POEMTRIES!!! :sarcasm: no.

Dumb... I'm pretty cynical, too and honest. So I'll give you my opinon and if you don't like it, I only care that I wasted my time even trying to educate people.

Originally Posted by Nolori

I'll write two hundred pages of stupid fantasy novel before I'll even TOUCH poetry.

lol I totally agree with you about that.

I love poetry and all, but I never seem to write anything I find worth actually presenting to anyone. I would much rather write out a full story instead. ^^;

Rhymes are nice, but poetry needs to have a little bit of non-repetitive-ness (I know it's not a word!), otherwise you just start going crazy.

I really like approximate rhymes, like Emily Dickens uses. I think regular rhymes can be good, as long as they're not rhyming just to rhyme.

I write poetry when I feel like it, I have to be struck by the mood.

Rhyming can be a great stylistic device, if used properly; often though, when you see people writing in their poems, it seems like they do just think that rhyming makes it poetry. I remember my days as a young kid writing poetry just like that. When I look back on it now, I think it's retarded. Why? Because it IS retarded. You don't base a poem off the rhyme; you base the rhyme off the poem. IF you rhyme at all.

Rhyming too much can also be really bad. You need to use colourful words and some words that others wouldn't necessarily think of. If you use simple words like in this example:

There once was the perfect guy
He was so sweet it made me cry

(...I died a little on the inside at that, but hey, spur of the moment crap was necessary! D:)

It's just not interesting. It makes rhyming seem like a toddler's device (if they could write properly! xD) and it's what ruins a lot of poems. If you use better rhyming choices, and rhyme where it matters - it can be perfectly fine.

Originally Posted by portraitinblack

Rhyming can be a great stylistic device, if used properly; often though, when you see people writing in their poems, it seems like they do just think that rhyming makes it poetry. I remember my days as a young kid writing poetry just like that. When I look back on it now, I think it's retarded. Why? Because it IS retarded. You don't base a poem off the rhyme; you base the rhyme off the poem. IF you rhyme at all.

Rhyming too much can also be really bad. You need to use colourful words and some words that others wouldn't necessarily think of. If you use simple words like in this example:

There once was the perfect guy
He was so sweet it made me cry

(...I died a little on the inside at that, but hey, spur of the moment crap was necessary! D:)

It's just not interesting. It makes rhyming seem like a toddler's device (if they could write properly! xD) and it's what ruins a lot of poems. If you use better rhyming choices, and rhyme where it matters - it can be perfectly fine.

See and that's the thing I was talking about.

If you can make it worth while, DO IT! If the form calls for it, DO IT! But don't waste my time with Dr. Suess. I'm 20 years old and most of the poetry posters are with in my age limit so I know they're far more capable than that kindercare

I see
I be
I am
I can.

Whatever. At least use some other type of rhyme like slant, sight, internal, whatever!

I don't write poetry that often, but sometimes, I'll get an idea that can ONLY be fit into poem form (hopefully that makes sense; I'm running on two hours of sleep, haha). Mostly, I'm into prose, so I prefer reading poetry that's prose-y. Nothing gets on my nerves like too much rhyming in a poem...or poetry that looks like it was ripped from an angsty preteen's diary.

I just wrote a humongous paper on Sylvia Plath (analysis, YUCK) for one of my college lit. courses, but surprisingly, it didn't destroy my love for her poetry. She's the only poet I can really think of that I love-love-love, other than maybe Charles Bukowski (who is awesome--you must read him!)

I heard one definition of poetry that I thought was amazing.

"The writers attempt to explain what otherwise is unexplainable."

And I liked that because it gave a sort of complicated nature along with a conflicting simple nature to poetry. A lot of times people think that just trying to describe their emotions about something is poetry, and personally it's really BORING poetry if it is poetry at all. There's nothing wrong with writing it, just don't post it to bore others. Interesting poetry is usually about a single concept or idea being described in a new fashion with colorful imagery and intricate diction. Poetry should flow or become choppy in coordination with the idea. If I'm talking about someone who got his head lopped off for planting white roses, I'll probably start with something flowing and smooth for planting the roses and then it'd become choppy for the part where the queen says "Off with your head" if that makes sense. Poetry is more than words and rhyming, it's also rhythm and how well you play the readers senses.

I don't really get into Poetry that much. You know who I like to read? Shel Silverstein, because he's funny, and I'm immature and a kid at heart.

Don't hand me any of that complex deep meaning poetry, I probably won't get it.

Then why are you talking about poetry???

That's another thing I don't like; people admitting they know very little about poetry still giving their opinion. I don't know anything about properly writint/criting prose, so guess what I don't do... write/critique prose. I just find it rude and really a waste of my time reading. I mean, it can be a good esteem booster, but only when it's actually GOOD poetry and the writer deserves the OMG OMG OMG I LUUURRRVVVEEE ITT!!! No... no, hunny, it's not really that great and believe you me, I'll definitly make sure you know it.

And don't ever take someone who goes around saying stuff like this the wrong way. They're telling you it sucks so you can fix it and grow to be a better writer. Those wonderful reviews are amazing! They're awesome to get! I know. But a bad review is THE MOST helpful thing you could ever recieve. WHY? because it reminds you that your piece isn't perfect yet and could use work in some places. it's not there to make you feel like you shouldn't be writer. So take the advice, stop whining and bitching how poemtwy iz fum tha hart, and fix your shit.

I'm done for right now...

lol. Please, again, don't take offence to this.

Poetry is art. Art is subjective. No one can tell you what is and is not poetry. They can tell you what is and is not written in a certain poetical form, and they can tell you whether they personally like your poem.

That's all. Honestly if most of you read one of the poems written in ancient Persia, you would not find it remotely poetic. 90% of them are just relating parts of womens bodies to flowers and such. It barely even counts as decent Metaphor, but it is poetry... technically speaking.

thus ends my anthropological rant.

I do agree that rhyming doesn't make something a poem. I also agree that unless you have an original concept being "dark" doesn't make a poem better.

I also admit that the only type of modern poetry that appeals to me is kinesthetic metaphor. I have an auditory processing disorder which makes a lot of other forms not work for me.

But in their language and their ancient times it did suffice correct? See... That would be considered a type of form poetry. Even ancient greek poetry is bad, but then again they didn't have very much to really compare to and back in that day they didn't have the education that we do either. It's very easy to say what is and what is not poetry. Just like most writers will tell what is and isn't a story. For instance:

I went down the road and bought some food. Ran into this cool guy and we kinda sorta hit off. Later we started dating and then married. happy ever after.

That's obviously not a story. It's the skeleton of one though, correct? Even if you through in some line breaks that's all it is. From there, it becomes the work of art. Understand more now?

Thank you for posting this. My god, someone had to say it. x.x I usually avoid poetry like, well, other things that I seriously avoid, because it tends to make me wanna vom. No offense to the amateur poets out there, but...seriously.

The only poetry I read, is Edger Allen Poes. I'm not much of a poetry reader. But I love writing it. I'm not very good, and my verses are short and simple, but they have a sweet point.

Well, I have a 15 year old son going through his "Dark Phase" and a mother and stepfather who're both prolific and published amateur poets. I say "amateur" because they have been published in several anthologies but not paid for the privilege. I'm an aspiring author and only an amateur poet at best but I deal with the issues in the original post quite often with my son. I'm honest with him and so are his grandparents and he's learned to use it constructively. As it's been stated, a bad critique is the one that will help you grow into a better writer no matter the style of writing. Use them, don't get your feelings hurt! Unless they're just being a jerk, someone taking the time to tell you what you need to work on is attempting to help you out. A positive critique is a great thing to have and you should enjoy it! If you're sharing your written work, you obviously want others to enjoy it and a positive critique builds much needed confidence.
So my proposition to those in the position to critique is this:
Salt and pepper have been set at Western Civilization's dinner tables for centuries for one good reason; they accentuate and compliment the the flavors of the meal. The ideas presented in a poor poem or work of prose are not inherently bad. They may be unoriginal and/or executed poorly but the idea behind a work of art is rarely, if ever, wrong. Meat, potatoes and bread placed unadorned on a plate before you is only unappealing for the lack of seasoning. A skilled chef would never make such an error but a novice can produce many bland or distasteful dishes out of good quality ingredients. We don't often tell someone who's worked hard to prepare a meal for us, "Oh! That's just awful!" No, we usually say "Pass the pepper please" or "It could use a little salt". So, why do we critique so harshly with our acid laced words? In my neck of the woods we have a saying; "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar". Instead of blasting the novice with only how wrong we feel they are, we should also give them the positive feedback that will help them have the confidence to continue writing and to grow into their potential. We do them NO favors by leaving them with only a sense that their writing is rubbish. That's my whole point in this really, so many of you think you're taking the high ground by giving brutal critique but you're, in fact, not helping nearly as much as you think that you are. Be brutal, be honest, be also, compassionate. As many of you have noted, you've been in their shoes before. So, tell them also what they do well and how to use that to their advantage. Leave them encouraged and they'll be more receptive to the flaws that you point out in their writing.
That's it I've had my rant and now it's someone else's turn! I hope my message has been received positively. :)

I write poetry. I enjoy reading poetry. I like rhymes. I like free verse. I loathe e.e. cummings but that doesn't mean he's a bad poet, just not to my taste. I agree with Metal, constructive criticism should do more than tell someone they suck and nobody likes them anyway. In the poetry classes i took in college I received the same instructions repeatedly: ALWAYS find something positive to say about the work. Then tell the person what they need to work on. No poem is completely without merit and a little praise goes a long way towards making someone not give up on writing.

As to the dark poems, mine have often leaned that way. It doesn't make them better or worse, just sadder perhaps than poems about brighter subjects. Some of my darkest poems are the best I've written because they have the most actual feeling behind them. I'll post some if I can find them in my college boxes.

I know quite a bit about poetry, but I don't feel that the people who say they don't know a lot about the subject have no right to comment. You don't have to know about meter or forms to have an opinion about poetry. Poetry is about emotion and everyone has those (well, nearly everyone).

I like all kinds of poetry: Poe, Dickinson, Chaucer, Shakespeare, and even Shel Silverstein. A poem that rhymes is not automatically bad, just as a poem that is dark is not automatically bad, and a poem that is vague is not automatically bad either. Poetry is all good as long as it brings out the author's intended emotions in the reader.

Of course the most important thing to remember in a discussion like this is that:

Opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one and they all stink. lol. So feel free to disagree with me.