a friend of mine told me about something they seen on discovery channel about homosexuality being a birth defect, i wasn't sure what to think of it so i looked it up and found this...

What makes people gay? Biologists may never get a complete answer to that question, but researchers in Sweden have found one more sign that the answer lies in the structure of the brain.

Scientists at the Karolinska Institute studied brain scans of 90 gay and straight men and women, and found that the size of the two symmetrical halves of the brains of gay men more closely resembled those of straight women than they did straight men. In heterosexual women, the two halves of the brain are more or less the same size. In heterosexual men, the right hemisphere is slightly larger. Scans of the brains of gay men in the study, however, showed that their hemispheres were relatively symmetrical, like those of straight women, while the brains of homosexual women were asymmetrical like those of straight men. The number of nerves connecting the two sides of the brains of gay men were also more like the number in heterosexual women than in straight men.

if you want to read the whole article it is located here:
Gay Brain Science: Homosexuality a Birth Defect?


what are your thoughts on this?

I have never heard that, but it sounds like bullshit. Your choices are not a defect that is just an excuse made up by those who think it is sin to justify it and justify the cruel use of electroshock therapy to fix it. And news flash, IT DOESN'T WORK. It doesn't work because you can't heal a mental condition that doesn't exist.

My best friend once said however that she learned in her psych class that it can actually be genetic. So for example if anyone knows 'Friends' Ross's son Ben technically could be gay because he was birthed by a gay mother. Assuming this is true that is.

I'm sorry, gayness being hereditary is ridiculous.
It would have to be controlled by a recessive gene, and that would mean that
A- It would only happen to a certain subset of the human race, as in just the people living in some area. Which is false.
B- As humans started to mix, the number of gay people would get smaller. And it isn't, in fact, it's been on the rise.

And it may be connected to the brain... but I have serious objections to it being called a "defect".

Gays are perfectly normal people and their sexual preference does not have any necessary implications on the rest of their lives.

I honestly have a slight queasiness about even trying to figure out what "makes them gay", because it's almost as though you're treating it like a disease.

I feel a little bad that I saw this topic and instantly had a mental image of a zombie going "They're fabulous!"

I've not heard of that specific theory behind orientation, but my own beliefes tend to lie in that direction. During psychology a couple years ago, we disscussed it, and explored the possiblilty that the amount of hormones - oestrogen & testosterone, among a few others - that a unborn child is exposed to has an effect upon on the eventual orientation of that child. Before hand other behavioural, physical or personality trait effectors come through, such as tone of voice and things like that.

I've never really held with the hereditory thing, although i do think that genes must have an influence on the amount of each effecting hormone produced during pregnancy. This would ultimatly sway eventual orientation one way or the other.

A few problems which seem to stand out to me with this theory. Firstly the role which social and cultural constructions play in it. As Gender, Gender roles and sexuality are all culturally defined identities. Another problem is that it simply assumes that X is causing Y, whereas there is every likelihood that it could be the reverse.

I'm what you may call a Bisexual, how's my brain suposed to look like?

haha of course it was a swedish research. lol

I've payed attention to the theories behind homosexuality, mainly for the fact that I am, myself, homosexual. Hearing the things being said, it does sometimes make me sick. My parents, being two heterosexual, heavily Christian people (not that I am saying it has to do with their religion, more as to how they choose to show it), have done the same thing. They've called homosexuality sick, wrong, depraved, said people who practice it have no morals. I've heard them refer to me as 'just going through a phase' or it having to do with my own 'mental defect' that they think is a real mental condition, that I like to simply call 'Being a teenager'.

No, Homosexuality isn't genetic, or I don't believe so. It's a personal thing. Is being STRAIGHT genetic? The only reason I see for people looking into why people are gay is 'Concerned' parents trying to 'fix' their children. Or at least, that's what I see in my part of the world. This is no more right than trying to 'cure' the 'mental problem' my parents think I have. And believe me, I've been put on SO many pills it's not even funny.

Just thought I'd put my two cents in ^^;; Personal thoughts.

~Kaine

Originally Posted by Misha-chan

I'm sorry, gayness being hereditary is ridiculous.
It would have to be controlled by a recessive gene, and that would mean that
A- It would only happen to a certain subset of the human race, as in just the people living in some area. Which is false.
B- As humans started to mix, the number of gay people would get smaller. And it isn't, in fact, it's been on the rise.

And it may be connected to the brain... but I have serious objections to it being called a "defect".

Gays are perfectly normal people and their sexual preference does not have any necessary implications on the rest of their lives.

I honestly have a slight queasiness about even trying to figure out what "makes them gay", because it's almost as though you're treating it like a disease.

If it is not genetic, then how do you explain its strong patterns in families and twins? If one twin is gay, the other twin is usually gay; most gay men have many older brothers, etc, etc.

Originally Posted by Misha-chan

I'm sorry, gayness being hereditary is ridiculous.
It would have to be controlled by a recessive gene, and that would mean that
A- It would only happen to a certain subset of the human race, as in just the people living in some area. Which is false.
B- As humans started to mix, the number of gay people would get smaller. And it isn't, in fact, it's been on the rise.

And it may be connected to the brain... but I have serious objections to it being called a "defect".

Gays are perfectly normal people and their sexual preference does not have any necessary implications on the rest of their lives.

I honestly have a slight queasiness about even trying to figure out what "makes them gay", because it's almost as though you're treating it like a disease.

Actually, being gay hasn't been on the rise. Its just people are coming out of the closet more so these days.
Being gay has always been apart of the human society.
And yes I agree, being homosexual is hardly a defect. What ? women smoke when prgenant so their baby turns out gay?
thats how I see that they are putting it.

Whatever, it can be a choice, and it can be in DNA.
Everyone has both estrogen and testosterone. Women have a tad more estrogen and men have a tad more testosterone.
Then there is the brain, then there is the gene/DNA. .
What bothers me is when a girl says she is bi because us guys think its sexy or some weird crap, and they say they are bi just so us guys will want them more. It is disgusting and pathetic.

Originally Posted by Bella_Cullen

I have never heard that, but it sounds like bullshit. Your choices are not a defect that is just an excuse made up by those who think it is sin to justify it and justify the cruel use of electroshock therapy to fix it.

I'm sorry baboo, but that sounds like you're mixing science with religion, and that doesn't work out. Scientist generally don't think anything is a sin because...they're scientist. Religious figures are the ones who condemn homosexuality, and they wouldn't use science (OR even say it's a defect) to justify themselves.

In fact, religion (which is what condemns homosexuality) is what says that it is a CHOICE. What I'm trying to say is that what you said made no sense and is conflicting.

I guess it's obvious where I stand. I do not think homosexuality is a choice. I believe 100% that you're born with it. (Even if you didn't realize it until later on in life.) Now it may or not be a "birth defect", but I don't think that it's something you can choose. I know this from experience. I'm not gay, but I have really weird gender and sexuality issues. I would never choose to be this way, it is just how I am.

I just think the idea of homosexuality being a CHOICE is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

I'm gay. If I could choose to be straight I wouldn't but I used to wish I was straight so I wasn't thought of as a freak in high school.
But now I have accepted it, and am moving on with my boyfriend in college. grrr... these kinds of things make me real angry.
People think its a choice,and I saw this one lady on TV who said she got rid of the gay, she went through councelling and it worked, BS. She is supressing it, I could tell she was gay too.
It is like that whole "pray away the gay "thing. So dumb. Just accept yourself.

I honestly think all that is a crapload of BULLSHIT. You chose to be straight or gay (yes, CHOSE. you either want to be with men or women or both, therefore in my mind it's a choice), it's not something you're born with, like say asthma or some kind of cancer, or being autistic. Being gay isn't some kind of disease or defect like that, it's your personal choice/preference. I hate when scientists think they're so cool and shit because they discovered something that's not true.

"We're going to die in 2012!" But I don't believe that one either. All the magnetic fields crap doesn't pinch a nerve. You just want to get famous and scare people into shit, and then when 2011 comes, they'll probably say, "Oh, look! I found blah-blah-blah and we won't die!" so people will think they're a saviour or something. Fuck that shit.

Back to the gay stuff. Like I said, it's not a disease. It might be a contagious trend (have you noticed how everyone's always, OH you're bi? cooool. me too!) but certainly not a disease/defect. If it was, I'm sure half the population would be gay right now. Which they already are, because of it being a quote unquote trend.

Originally Posted by Rain:]

I honestly think all that is a crapload of BULLSHIT. You chose to be straight or gay (yes, CHOSE. you either want to be with men or women or both, therefore in my mind it's a choice), it's not something you're born with, like say asthma or some kind of cancer, or being autistic. Being gay isn't some kind of disease or defect like that, it's your personal choice/preference.

I'm sorry that your mind is wonky and you see it that way, but you're definitely wrong. You can't choose which gender you are attracted to by default. If it was this way, there would be a lot more straight people in the world. I have a friend right now who just came out of the closet. He REALLY wishes he was straight, but it is impossible for him to be attracted to women. He is very upset about this all, and really hates himself for being gay. You call that a choice? Nope, it's not. You're a moron.

So then . . . . . what would that make bisexual people's brains? Some weird third kind? XD

Originally Posted by Krokodil

I'm sorry that your mind is wonky and you see it that way, but you're definitely wrong. You can't choose which gender you are attracted to by default. If it was this way, there would be a lot more straight people in the world. I have a friend right now who just came out of the closet. He REALLY wishes he was straight, but it is impossible for him to be attracted to women. He is very upset about this all, and really hates himself for being gay. You call that a choice? Nope, it's not. You're a moron.

Thank you for calling me a moron for my opinions.
In that case, I would say no that it wasn't a choice.
But you should at least CONSIDER other people's opinions.
Therefore, YOU are the moron, my friend.

And side note: if your friend can't accept himself, well, that's too bad. He's making a CHOICE not to accept himself, therefore depressing himself further and hating gayness more. If he were to open up about it and accept himself, I'm sure he wouldn't hate himself for it.

Originally Posted by Kris

If it is not genetic, then how do you explain its strong patterns in families and twins? If one twin is gay, the other twin is usually gay; most gay men have many older brothers, etc, etc.

Although one of the problems with this, is that in all these cases they exist in the same culture. As such they are living with the same culturally defined understandings of Gender, Sexuality and Gender Roles. I am not asserting genetics has nothing to do with sexuality. But rather as it is reactive, it is very much dependent on the culture which the individual lives in. I have a good quote, which looks at the question of whether we can separate nature from nurture in our research. While it is talking specifically about IQ, it is equally applicable here. After all like IQ, sexuality is a social construct.

Originally Posted by The IQ myth

3. Can the IQ score be partitioned between a ‘genetic’ and an ‘environmental’ component?

First, even for behaviour genetics, it makes no sense to talk of partitioning ‘genetic’ or ‘environmental’ components of IQ for an individual, despite loose talk by some psyhometricians (though only Eysenck seems to be biologically naïve enough to talk in quite these terms) about ‘low-IQ genes’ or ‘high-IQ genes. For any individual, a unique genotype develops and expresses itself in a unique environment. What are ‘low-IQ genes’ in one environment are ‘normal-IQ genes’ in another. (For example, children born with a simple genetic defect known as phenylketonuria (PKU) and reared in a normal environment develop irreversible mental retardation. Hence the PKU gene is a ‘low-IQ gene’. But if the environment is changed, by changing the child’s diet from birth to avoid the substance phenylalanine, the child develops normally – the gene for PKU is still there, but in a different environment it is no longer a low-IQ gene anymore).

Originally Posted by Silonus

Whatever, it can be a choice, and it can be in DNA.

In some ways, this misrepresents the debate. Simply because one argues that it is not solely the result of DNA, does not mean they believe it is a 'choice'. As Roger N Lancaster asserted it is no more a choice than any other aspect of culture.

Originally Posted by Krokodil

I'm sorry baboo, but that sounds like you're mixing science with religion, and that doesn't work out.

I would hope you are not attempting to assert that science has never been involved in the active subordination of groups in society. In regards to sexuality they have played a huge role in legitimizing heteronormativity. One only needs to look at Sociobiology and Evolutionary Psychology to see how true this is.

On the same vein of what Misha was saying, I'm afraid of these kind of discussions. I'm afraid the people researching it would want to try 'curing' homosexuality. They may be twisting their results due to something they believe in. Some things should remain a mystery. About homosexuality being hereditary... No one else in my family is gay. At least, that I know of my mother's side. I can't ask about my father's side. I tend to avoid reading peoples' reasoning for homosexuality, but here's my two cents: my parents are both straight, I have a straight younger brother, and for as long as I can remember, I've only been interested in other men. I wouldn't sit near the boys during kindergarten or when I was younger, though. I sat with the girls and colored with them. And, no, it is not a birth defect. Whoever wrote that article's title needs some flaming, but I won't give it to them. I'm too nice to do that...
Well, at least I know now to avoid the Discovery Channel.
Oh, and this may be better suited for the debate forum. This kind of discussion could become very heated...

you all have some very interesting opinions on this and i thank you for sharing them with me.

i personally don't think it's a defect of any sort, however, i do think it may have something to do with the brain... perhaps the estrogen and testosterone are a little off in the brains of homosexuals. the reason i think this is because i know for a fact that being gay is not a choice.

Back to the gay stuff. Like I said, it's not a disease. It might be a contagious trend (have you noticed how everyone's always, OH you're bi? cooool. me too!) but certainly not a disease/defect. If it was, I'm sure half the population would be gay right now. Which they already are, because of it being a quote unquote trend.

as for this, i have noticed that bisexuality has become somewhat of a trend. don't get me wrong, there are all kinds of bisexuals out there that are attracted to both genders and i'm not talking about them. high school aged people seem to go through some "bisexuality is hot" thing and suddenly all the teenagers around you are bisexual. maybe it has something to do with them being curious and "discovering" themselves, i don't know.

I also saw a documentary on the discovery channel, but they were comparing twins-nature vs. nurture. In part of it, they explained that it may be that everyone has a gene that can possibly make a person "gay" or "straight" or "bi." They say that the genes are either turned "on" or "off." Their theory is that many of our genes are either turned on or off by certain chemicals. This is found to be a complex and new form of science, although I can't remember the correct name for it.

I couldn't find the link to what I am explaining, but I did find one that has some remarkable information, in my opinion. Homosexuality Turned On and Off in Fruit Flies | LiveScience

My personal opinion on it is that their findings are very interesting to me. I am straight myself, but sometimes I wonder what it would be like if I weren't. Being gay is NOT a disease or a problem, and it bothers me that some people think that way. I think genes have a huge part in our lives, but maybe being gay or straight is also determined by environment as well.;)

Originally Posted by Rain:]

Thank you for calling me a moron for my opinions.
In that case, I would say no that it wasn't a choice.
But you should at least CONSIDER other people's opinions.
Therefore, YOU are the moron, my friend.

And side note: if your friend can't accept himself, well, that's too bad. He's making a CHOICE not to accept himself, therefore depressing himself further and hating gayness more. If he were to open up about it and accept himself, I'm sure he wouldn't hate himself for it.

You're welcome, and I don't mind calling myself a moron. I refuse to consider that homosexuality is a choice, and I know it isn't. I have considered your opinion , but I found that it doesn't match up with facts. It just doesn't make sense.

And about my friend: Yeah, it's his choice to not accept himself. But it wasn't his choice to be gay.

Originally Posted by Krokodil

You're welcome, and I don't mind calling myself a moron. I refuse to consider that homosexuality is a choice, and I know it isn't. I have considered your opinion , but I found that it doesn't match up with facts. It just doesn't make sense.

And about my friend: Yeah, it's his choice to not accept himself. But it wasn't his choice to be gay.

You really don't get what I'm saying.
Some people consider homosexuality as a choice, and since I don't think it as anything else thats my opinion.
What facts are there to homosexuality? You like the same sex, or sometimes both sexes. There's nothing to "match up facts" with. It's either a you-do-or-you-don't thing.
About your friend: The moment he makes the choice to accept himself, he won't be as depressed about it and maybe even like it. You never know, and you've stated that fact about three times now.

Personally speaking, as a lesbian myself, it annoys the hell out of me when people claim to have been born homosexual. =_= No. You're not. It's a choice. And you can change any time you want and you know it. Please stop acting stupid. I don't like genders at all, really. I would love my significant other no matter what gender she was. We just both happen to be female.

If you're not even an adult yet you definitely can't claim to not like the opposite gender. It probably just hasn't kicked in yet. But homosexuality isn't about SEX any more than a straight relationship. It's about love and support.

You may have a psychological issue stemming from being picked on as a kid, also. It's hard to tell sometimes.

I didn't think I'd end up lesbian. I didn't plan on it. I just did. And I don't see the big deal. At. All.

Originally Posted by Kithias

Personally speaking, as a lesbian myself, it annoys the hell out of me when people claim to have been born homosexual. =_= No. You're not. It's a choice. And you can change any time you want and you know it. Please stop acting stupid. I don't like genders at all, really. I would love my significant other no matter what gender she was. We just both happen to be female.

If you're not even an adult yet you definitely can't claim to not like the opposite gender. It probably just hasn't kicked in yet. But homosexuality isn't about SEX any more than a straight relationship. It's about love and support.

You may have a psychological issue stemming from being picked on as a kid, also. It's hard to tell sometimes.

I didn't think I'd end up lesbian. I didn't plan on it. I just did. And I don't see the big deal. At. All.

Your sexuality is not defined by the relationship you're in, but by the attractions you feel to people. From what you describe, you could be pansexual, but if you are not solely (or mostly) attracted to women alone, then you are not a lesbian.

Please stop acting like everyone else is just like you. Sorry to tell you, but the world is not defined by your experiences alone. You attracted to more than one gender. Good for you, sunshine, but not everyone is like you. Get over yourself.