I recently read the Ender's Series (just the first four books; Ender's Game, Speaker of the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind) And I had a lot of very strong opinions about the series, so i was hoping you all could indulge me in a little discussion

Ender's Game I loved. It was interesting, action packed, intriguing, and just fun to read. The tactics of zero gravity fighting, the ability of Ender to thrive even against such impossible odds.... It was great fun, and OSC's ramblings were fortunatly kept to an extreme minimum (something i cannot say for future books)

Speaker of the Dead was pretty good too. I didn't enjoy it as much as Ender's Game, but it was an interesting concept, and i liked how the piggies were so completely an alien race, which is, surprisingly enough, not often seen. I was sad to see Val and Ender split up, and i was intrigued by the introduction of Jane. I was happy to see that Ender got the girl and i was VERY VERY SCEPTICAL LEIK WHOA that Ender was a Virgin. At 30. (and also that he was straight, but that is neither here nor there) OSC's crazy mormon was starting to show, but that was okay, I could mostly ignore it.

OCS started to become a little unglued somewhere halfway through Xenocide. I actually enjoyed most of the book.... Except, of course, Card's ramblings on his theory of metaphysiscs and philosophy and guuuuh.... It got real boggy. And then they changed reality by wishing real hard and the fate of Quing-Jao made me rage hardcore. But I LOVED the conversations between the Hive Queen and Human. Looking at the human race through the eyes of two different alien races? Awesome.

By the time i got to Children of the Mind I was just hoping for the series to be over. Everything was wrapped up with a pretty little bow, but there was LOTS more Card-ramblings and i just wanted to scream "I don't care, you crazy mormon sexualy frustrated man!" Like, seriously, he came up with an order of priests that in order to enter the order had to be married and celibate. CELIBATE. and MARRIED. Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad idea? I can't be, because Ender literally died of boredom, and his wife is/was a spiteful cold bitch. Just sayin.

So yea, that was my opinion on Ender's Game. I'd like to note that i have nothing against Mormons or your religion, but Card is known for being a hateful homophobic man who hides behind his religion to be nasty, so i poke fun at him for it. xD

What are your thoughts?

I've only read Ender's Game and Speaker of the Dead, but I've read enough Card to be sorta familiar with his "ramblings" as you call them. ^^

But yeah, I really loved Ender's Game. It is one of the few novels that I've ever read where the plot twist was not one that I saw a mile away. It was always a fascinating look into how we humans will do anything in order to win, up to and including using unknowing children to do the dirty work. At the end of the novel I was so sad for Ender that his innocence was the price the human race decided to pay to win the war.

Speaker of the Dead was pretty awesome in the sci-fi elements. I loved the piggies, and yeah, Ender being a 30 year old virgin was something I chuckled over. But really, it made sense since he never stayed in any one spot for too long, and he seemed like he needed to be really comfortable with someone before he could open up about anything. Logically then, sex would be something he was really reserved about doing. Jane was probably my favorite since her birth was something I'd never seen before in a sci-fi since most all the AIs I've come across were conciously created by man.

I've also loved some of Card's other books, like Empire and Enchanted.

Ender had always struck me as someone who would be a little screwy, sexually. I mean, the abuse he went through would almost assure that, so some discomfort would be certain. But I don't know, maybe that's just my own view of sexuality thrown in.

And you know I HAVE to mention it, but i totally got some incestuous vibes from him and Val. Especially in (speaker? xenocide? they all blend together) when he was talking to someone from Children of the Mind (celibate married priests) and mentioned how similar his relationship was to that of the married Children of the Mind couple. I mean, come ON. I was totally not convinced with Card's defensive "but they're totally not incestuous guys, i promise" the next sentence xDDD

A friend of mine who only read Ender's Game said he picked up some homoerotic vibes between him and Bean, which i agreed with. I just can't imagine this kid being able to have a normal sexual relationship tho. And Novinha turned out to be a total bitch. Just sayin.

I've always loved Ender's Game, but I steadfastly REFUSE to read Speaker, Xenoside or Childern of the Mind. I just can't bring myself to do it since I've had it described too many times as "Mormons in Space" (I also have no problems with Mormonism, but seriously?)
The Shadow series though- ooh, love it. (Starts with Ender's Shadow which is from Bean's POV and goes from there. I've read most of them and they're very good)

I try to not let a writer's personal views affect my enjoyment, but yeah Card is a little obnoxious lately. I''ve just resorted to not buying his books- only borrowing them from the library

Yea, that is pretty much the decision i have reached, re buying his books. I don't want to support someone who spouts such hateful rhetoric.

And AHAHAHAHAHA Mormons in space -snerk- That's pretty much exactly right, actually. I'm a compulsive completionist, so i wanted to finish out the series. The books themselves have a lot of interesting moments but...yea... mormons in space.

What is the Shadow series about though? I was gonna steer clear after the awful slogging of the last bit of the series, but if it is good.... i am intrigued.

I have never heard of the Ender series being called Mormons in Space, but looking back . . . it makes some sense.

@ Yumiko: Didn't pick up on the homoerotic vibes between Ender and Bean, but the implied incest was there. The fact that Val was the only person who "understood" him, stood by him, . . . yeah, I saw it. I'd have to go back and reread to see if I pick up anything between Ender and Bean, but honestly, all of the main characters in that particular universe are screwed up, so I can't say I wouldnt' be surprised.

When it comes to series, I like to read in order. ):
I'm on a quest for Speaker of the Dead right now. I have the third one, but I can't get myself to read it. :P

My boyfriend's read most of them. Whenever he and I are driving somewhere together, we work through the audio books (unabridged, of course) together. It would be much faster for me to read them of course, but this is one of the fun things we do together so I prefer to keep it this way. So I've heard all of Ender's Game and we're working on Speaker for the Dead now. At the end of the Ender's Game audio book, there was a nice long commentary by Orsen Scott Card which was really quite interesting to listen to. He talked about how he began the series (how it started as a short story he had a really hard time getting published) and how there would be no way to make a movie of the book unless it combined Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow together (but that he couldn't find anyone willing to make a movie where Ender is younger than... something like 16? because the idiots want him to have a love interest). Anyway, it was really cool to listen to.

Originally Posted by YumikoYoshihana

I recently read the Ender's Series (just the first four books; Ender's Game, Speaker of the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind) And I had a lot of very strong opinions about the series, so i was hoping you all could indulge me in a little discussion

Yay! I love discussions!

Ender's Game I loved. It was interesting, action packed, intriguing, and just fun to read. The tactics of zero gravity fighting, the ability of Ender to thrive even against such impossible odds.... It was great fun, and OSC's ramblings were fortunatly kept to an extreme minimum (something i cannot say for future books)

I agree, Ender's Game was amazing to someone like me. I was always a huge fan of science fiction as a kid (Animorphs, Fearless), and Ender's Game was the first adult Science Fiction novel I picked up and read through. It blew my mind, especially the twist at the end. I can remember just staring at the words in shock for a good minute before I was able to continue reading.

Speaker of the Dead was pretty good too. I didn't enjoy it as much as Ender's Game, but it was an interesting concept, and i liked how the piggies were so completely an alien race, which is, surprisingly enough, not often seen. I was sad to see Val and Ender split up, and i was intrigued by the introduction of Jane. I was happy to see that Ender got the girl and i was VERY VERY SCEPTICAL LEIK WHOA that Ender was a Virgin. At 30. (and also that he was straight, but that is neither here nor there) OSC's crazy mormon was starting to show, but that was okay, I could mostly ignore it.

Yeah, Speaker for the Dead was really good too. The piggies, again, blew me away, especially with, yet again, the amazing twist at the end that I completely did not see coming at all. And Jane amazed me as well. So did the native kids, the one with the recorder in his eye?

It wasn't a far streach for me that Ender was a vergin. As it was pointed out, his life was a REALLY strange one, and military really f*cks with adults minds. Can you imagine the military involved in your life as they were in Ender's? Also, there was the faster-than-light travel, the whole everyone-you-know-is-now-either-90-or-dead thing.

...I don't doubt that messed with him as well.

I enjoyed Speaker for the Dead as a whole, although not as much as Ender's Game, and not as much as Xenocide. :)

Also, maybe it was because I didn't know much about OSC so my vision wasn't biast, but I didn't get the feeling that he was preaching mormanism when I read the books. I chalked it up to Ender being special or 'strange' in the way he grew up, AND the fact that it was a futuristic novel.

OCS started to become a little unglued somewhere halfway through Xenocide. I actually enjoyed most of the book.... Except, of course, Card's ramblings on his theory of metaphysiscs and philosophy and guuuuh.... It got real boggy. And then they changed reality by wishing real hard and the fate of Quing-Jao made me rage hardcore. But I LOVED the conversations between the Hive Queen and Human. Looking at the human race through the eyes of two different alien races? Awesome.

I disagree with your unglued statement. Xenocide completely blew me away as well. I loved the people of the path, and while Quing-Jao's ending days were horribly sad I found her servents (can't remember her name) ending completely facinating.

SPOILERS!!!

While I was reading, I had thought to myself that the people of the Path's 'gifts' reminded me a LOT of OCD, but it never occured to me in a million years that thats what it actually was.

His theorys interested me, I didn't find him too preachy in the least.

By the time i got to Children of the Mind I was just hoping for the series to be over. Everything was wrapped up with a pretty little bow, but there was LOTS more Card-ramblings and i just wanted to scream "I don't care, you crazy mormon sexualy frustrated man!" Like, seriously, he came up with an order of priests that in order to enter the order had to be married and celibate. CELIBATE. and MARRIED. Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad idea? I can't be, because Ender literally died of boredom, and his wife is/was a spiteful cold bitch. Just sayin.

I haven't read Children of the Mind, but it's next on my list, so I can't comment on this one. :) I read a little of the beginning before I became glued to some other book and I do agree that his wife was a total bitch.

So yea, that was my opinion on Ender's Game. I'd like to note that i have nothing against Mormons or your religion, but Card is known for being a hateful homophobic man who hides behind his religion to be nasty, so i poke fun at him for it. xD

What are your thoughts?

See, here's my deal. I don't read Card's books because I like his morals. I read his books because they are some of the most interesting stories/plots/characters/everything than I've ever read. The man is religious, and I believe in religious freedom and freedp, of speach. :)

Write on, Card. Write on.