This thread has many different topics referring mostly to the environment and the world around us. We humans take and take and take, without giving much back. We trap, hunt, kill, clear cut forests, pollute the environment, and pretty much destroy everything beautiful. It is a cold and hard truth to face, but it is how it is.

Now, don't get me wrong, some countries are environment friendly now and have started to do their best about helping the world around them, but other countries...say.. the United States has not. I can say this because I live in the US and have my entire life. It is easily the most industrialized country in the world and because of this, it is also the top leader of using resources, polluting, and damaging the environment. But in other countries, such as the ones in Africa, hunters poach endangered wildlife just for one part of their body; tusks, furs, ivory, horns, bones. And leave the rest to waste. It is cruel and it it causing a major collapse in populations of animals. Do you think this is okay? Or do you not even care? I know some people do care about animals, and others do not care what happens to them.

So let me ask, are you one of those that feels humans are supreme and can do with the earth as they please or do you think we are equal to other animals and we should not take the way we do and harm them?

Before answering that question, perhaps you should read a little more.

I will start with Deforestation.

Deforestation is defined my wiki as

Deforestation, clearance or clearing is the removal of a forest or stand of trees where the land is thereafter converted to a non-forest use.[1] Examples of deforestation include conversion of forestland to farms, ranches, or urban use.
More than half of the animal and plant species in the world live in tropical forests.[2]

I feel that Deforestation is completely wrong. It destroys the environment around it, endangers the wildlife and changed the overall climate in that particular area.

Next up we have Animal Trapping.

Animal trapping is defined by Wiki as

Animal trapping, or simply trapping, is the use of a device to remotely catch an animal. Animals may be trapped for a variety of purposes, including food, wildlife management, hunting, and pest control. Trapping may also specify the capture of mammals for their furs which may be sold or bartered in the fur trade, or which may be used for making clothing and other articles.

Now most animal trapping is abused by hunters that use the bear traps and cause animals to have one of their legs trapped by claws of steel that torment them for days until the hunter comes by to kill them. I strongly feel that this is NOT right at all. It makes me extremely unhappy and I cannot stand it.

I used a least disturbing image as possible, but had to make sure to get the point across.

Pollution's up next.

Pollution is defined by Wiki as

Pollution is the introduction of contaminants into the natural environment that cause adverse change.[1] Pollution can take the form of chemical substances or energy, such as noise, heat or light. Pollutants, the components of pollution, can be either foreign substances/energies or naturally occurring contaminants. Pollution is often classed as point source or nonpoint source pollution.

Ask me about point source and nonpoint source if confused. I can tell you.

We do this everyday. I do it, I know it is an inevitable fact. I use a microwave everyday, drive my car, put things in the trash can... it all effects the environment in some way and I hate it.


This next topic burns me up even worse. I cannot stand FUR TRADERS. I cannot stand animals being bred, torments, and abused for their short life just so greedy hands can get their pay with pur.

Fur Farms are defined by Wiki as

Fur farming is the practice of breeding or raising certain types of animals for their fur.

Fur used from animals caught in the wild is not considered farmed fur, and is instead known as 'wild fur'. Most of the world’s farmed fur is produced by European farmers. There are 6,000 fur farms in the EU. [1][2][3] The EU accounts for 63% of global mink production and 70% of fox production. Denmark is the leading mink-producing country, accounting for approximately 28% of world production. Other major producers include China, the Netherlands, the Baltic States, and the U.S.[4] Finland is the largest United States supplier of fox pelts. The United States is a major exporter of furskins. Major export markets include China, Russia, Canada, and the EU. Exports to Asia as a share of total exports grew from 22% in 1998 to 47% in 2002.[5] China is the largest importer of fur pelts in the world, therefore making them the largest re-exporter of finished fur products.[6]

Fur farming is banned in Austria,[7][8] Croatia (started on January 1, 2007, with a 10 year phase out period),[8][9] and the United Kingdom.[10][11] In Switzerland, the regulations for fur farming are very strict, with the result that there are no fur farms.[8] Some other countries have a ban on fur farming of certain types of animals.

Demand fell in the late 1980s and 1990s because of a number of factors, including the failure of designers to come up with exciting new lines, and also the efforts of animal rights campaigners. Since the turn of the millennium, however, sales worldwide have soared to record highs, fuelled by radically new techniques for working with fur, and a sharp rise in disposable income in China and Russia. This growing demand has led to the development of extensive fur farming operations in countries such as China and Poland.

It really upsets me at how the world just loves to think luxury is spending money and time wearing furs. What if I started a skin farm and made coats from human skins to sell for pets to wear? (Yes, that would be very disturbing, but basically it is the same thing...)

One that really upsets me because I personally love these animals and have three relatives as pets (ferrets) is Mink fur farms. Mink fur is considered valuable, desired, and expensive.


After stripping the animal of it's fur, they have no more use for it. The rest of the body is generally wasted, burned, buried, ect. It really makes me cry... like I am tearing up right now posting this and having to think about it. BUT many people don't even know that this goes on. Fur buyers tend to not even think about a living creature, just how soft the fur is.

Warning: This image is very disturbing. THIS is what a Russian mink farm does with their minks after the fur is taken off. This is.. terrible. View at your own risk.

I would never buy fur. Real or fake and therefore do not consider it luxurious, but instead awful. Your thoughts on the fur trade?

Hunting:

Hunting is defines by Wiki as

Hunting is the practice of pursuing any living thing, usually wildlife or feral animals, by humans for food, recreation, or trade. Animals may also hunt other animal species but this is usually called predation. In present-day use, lawful hunting is distinguished from poaching, which is the killing, trapping or capture of the hunted species contrary to applicable law. The species that are hunted are referred to as game, and are usually mammals and migratory or non-migratory gamebirds.

Hunting can also involve the elimination of vermin, as a means of pest control to prevent diseases caused by overpopulation. Hunting advocates state that hunting can be a necessary component[1] of modern wildlife management, for example to help maintain a population of healthy animals within an environment's ecological carrying capacity when natural checks such as predators are absent.[2] In the United States, wildlife managers are frequently part of hunting regulatory and licensing bodies, where they help to set rules on the number, manner and conditions in which game may be hunted.

The pursuit, capture and release, or capture for food of fish is called fishing, which is not commonly categorised as a form of hunting. Trapping is also usually considered a separate activity. It is also not considered hunting to pursue animals without intent to kill them, as in wildlife photography or birdwatching. The practice of foraging or gathering materials from plants and mushrooms is also considered separate.

Skilful tracking and acquisition of an elusive target has caused the word hunt to be used in the vernacular as a metaphor, as in treasure hunting, "bargain hunting", and even "hunting down corruption and waste."

Now, there is Trophy Hunting and just regular hunting. I am strongly against Trophy hunting and I'm not a fan on just hunting either. Some places, like where I live for an example would be extremely over populated with deer if they weren't hunted since they have no natural predators. So, it is okay with me to hunt deer here to an extent. My fiance went hunting for deer and shot one. We stored the meat and have lived off of it. But then the people that go out and shoot 5 to 10 are just cruel. That's too many and they do it simply for the thrill. Trophy hunting is excruciatingly terrible for it is just for those people that have huge egos and like to brag about shooting the biggest lion, elephant, ect. I think that is sick and twisted. Your thoughts?

Land Fills/ More pollution

Landfill defined by Wiki:

A landfill site (also known as a tip, dump, rubbish dump or dumping ground and historically as a midden) is a site for the disposal of waste materials by burial and is the oldest form of waste treatment. Historically, landfills have been the most common methods of organized waste disposal and remain so in many places around the world. Some landfills are also used for waste management purposes, such as the temporary storage, consolidation and transfer, or processing of waste material (sorting, treatment, or recycling).

We humans use, waste, and dump so much garbage a year that landfills are over filled, the ocean is becoming more and more polluted and more and more of wild land is needed to dispose of our junk.



In fact, there is a garbage island in the middle of the ocean the size of TEXAS from us throwing trash, water bottles, and other plastics into the ocean. The currents push the trash together and have formed a huge pollution island.


Here is something to look at too:



I will add more for discussion sometime.


So, my thoughts are this:

Humans have taken over the earth and are extracting everything they can get their hands on, even if it means destroying the environment around us. Humans are not supreme creatures and are not above any other animals, for we ourselves are animals. We are mammals. We do not have the right to hunt to near extinction, torment and torture animals simply for their fur, trap them for our joy, nor do we have a right to test on them. We are extremely over populated and destroying the homes of millions of animals. We are also slowly killing ourselves through pollution. We humans have almost gone through all the oil, have caused several species to go extinct due to clear cutting trees and over hunting them. Most humans are an all in one bundle of terror and horror for all living creatures on this planet. Harsh, yes. But that is how it is. People torture for joy, kill for the excitement, destroy for the thrill. Is it right? No. I in no way think it is okay. I, myself, will go out of my way to get a turtle out of the road. I also pick up strays and try finding homes for them. I try to save animals, not destroy them. I am a certified Veterinary Assistant and am hoping to get a job soon so I can continue helping animals. I do my best to not waste water, to not waste food, I use all garbage bags to the extreme to help with land fills and do not throw away everything. I recycle, reuse, convert, and do everything I can that I can afford to help out. My car is unfortunately an oil eater and I cannot afford better yet, but I hope to get a hybrid of some sort soon. I reuse plastic shopping bags, bottles, glass, ect.

Maybe I am rambling on, but this thread is for that. What are your opinions on anything environmental? If I didn't list it here, tell me and I will!

This thread is also to help raise awareness of such things and I hope to include more information on ways to help out when I have the time.

But for now, ramble on with me about these kind of issues. Debate with me if you don't agree. Any side and anything said will be considered without rude or nasty remarks and behavior.

This feels more like you're going for the shock jock factor in an opinion piece.
For instance, claiming that America is the most industrialized and unregulated country in the world because you've lived in America your entire life is an incredulous claim that can be assimilated to someone claiming the United States is the greatest country because they've never been anywhere else. I also don't see any suggestions on how to curb or help reduce the carbon footprint, so to speak, of humans on the environment.

A hybrid car that runs on...well, lets see, electricity? While in the future, this might be a viable and responsible purchase, it's not at current. Electricity isn't gained through wind farms, and solar panels. It's from burning coal, and if you're from Brazil, ethanol which can kill the soil relatively quickly if the plots aren't rotated. But what about the technology for those cars? You're going to have to mine in Africa to get the metal for those microchips, and since you can't afford the car right now, we have to keep the entire continent in a state of war and unrest just so that we can afford the reasonable $50,000 price tag. And the plastic covering for the cars, the laptops, the cell phones, beauty products, etc. comes from harmful environmental practices as well. What about the house you're sitting in? About the building you work in? I'm sure the framing for those buildings is made from wood, and maybe even steel (another mined metal).

Namely, I want to know where this idea that hunting is an atrocious disgusting act. Particularly since you and your fiance participated. I don't know any responsible hunter--trophy or subsistence--who kills 'just for the fun of it', and there are permits that regulate both the season you can hunt, and the amount of kill per person. I don't know how it is in your state, but in mine, it's extremely regulated and heavily enforced. In fact, there's a running joke known to us that Fish and Game hide in the bushes and watch you at all times. It's a lot of work to haul one animal back to your home, much more an alleged five-to-ten animals. I don't know about you, but I'm not hauling a deer ten miles back to the car.

I wouldn't rule out eating meat just yet; it might be easy to overlook a slaughter farm if you don't know that you vegetarian diet is being picked by children and workers who earn less in a month than you do in half a week.

I don't believe the world is overpopulated with people, either. You may feel that some cities are overcrowded with skyscrapers and apartment complexes in close proximity to each other; hell, sometimes I feel like my own city is crowded during rush hour. But we haven't considered building alternatively or expanding our horizons beyond land. In some rare instances you have cities like New Orleans which lie below sea level in a swamp; prone to flooding, yet with a developed technology what's to keep us from building communities in the ocean? Our world is roughly 75% water. And according to the Oil And Gas Journal, there was an estimated amount of oil to last the world population from 2009 for another 44 years (source).

I didn't base the statement about the United States being the most industrialized country just because I live here. I read, I learn, I watch, and I study. Yes, there are many more countries that have a lot of technology, advanced technology, and are even smarter than most citizens in the US. What I meant by what I said is that the US was the first country to become industrial and advanced, later on the other countries picked it up. I meant that the US is one country that cares less about the environment then they let out to. Here people have developed bad habits of disposing of things just because they want a new one, eating fast foods, and wasting, wasting, wasting. Students, where I live, aren't taught to learn how to help the environment and how to keep from wasting products that could help with pollution. Don't get me wrong, when I was a kid we would learn about recycling and whatnot, but never learned of the benefits and it was never actually shown to us. Something the students weren't able to participate in and then they just forget. And I also said somewhere that once I had some more time I would post suggestions such as the one you are saying. But, this thread is about debate in the fact of whether humans are or are not harming the planet and my goal initially is to help some people who are unaware of any issues learn about them. Learning is important.

And a hybrid I referred to is expensive, yes. I simply stated it was my goal to own one, not one that ran on electricity, but one that ran on other forms of power, oil based plants that can easily be reproduced. Those vehicles do exist, and I am not claiming that the hybrids will stop the world pollution crisis, but it is one step forward from what I need have and it would be beneficial. Even a car that gets excellent gas millage would be beneficial to those that drive trucks (not semi trucks) that are gas hogs. One step, is one step. It might not make much of a impact, and yes if the economy would price these kind of products cheaper, perhaps more people could purchase them. But would they? Probably not many because most people here do not care much for the environment. I see it everyday. Even when traveling to different states, I see it.

Whether or not you completely read through the hunting section you would have picked up what about hunting I find disgusting. Yes, I stated that my fiance and I went hunting and killed one deer. BUT I also stated that here where I live, deer become overpopulated and the environment suffers from it. So here it the population can only be regulated by hunting. The deer he shot served to us as food, not a trophy. Sure, maybe where you live and the people that you know all do as they are supposed to do. Have their set limit and don't kill anything else. But, haven't you heard of poaching? Not to sound rude at all, but maybe you should read a little more about it, but I guess not everyone keeps watch through animal programs you can participate through. The hunting I find most inappropriate is killing just to kill. My fiance and I ate what we shot, but it was just one deer. One. Now, I have seen and read the articles about men going out and shooting an entire pack of wolves down in one day. I followed them on their Facebook just so I knew for sure and didn't just think they were bragging about it. But they were. They were talking about how good it felt just to kill them all, about how funny it was to hear them cry. That is the kind of hunting I was referring too. The senseless hunting that is simply for men (or women) with huge egos and to give them bragging rights. I don't think it is right that humans can go out and kill, kill, kill. Yes, it is illegal to shoot certain things, but many do it anyway. And I also stated that trapping through claw traps is extremely horrible. Do you not think so? I for one find that trapped a coyote, fox, wolf, puma, ect by the foot and letting it sit there over night or even for days suffering as the metal slowly digs further and further into the flesh and finally to the bone. I actually saw a guy on FB (yes... facebook again), that had trapped a wolf in a bear trap and was laughing as he had his picture taken with the wolf still suffering and alive. The creature was absolutely terrified. I don't think that is right.

And I haven't ruled out meat.. I have always eaten meat. And for one that loves animals as much as I do, it might seem strange. But, I also try to buy meat form places I know that don't treat animals cruelly before getting it. I mean, that deer meat served us awhile and it was something that we had gotten ourselves without tormenting or putting it through pain.

And as for the overpopulation part, humans are overpopulated. Based on what you even said about the oil only proves the point further. Earth cannot support all of us without damage, without draining resources. Think about that. If earth wasn't over populate by humans do you think the climate would become so polluted, or that entire species would go extinct due to the need to clear out more land for us to live on? Do you think that the oil would run dry in so few years? The answer to all of those is simple. Not a chance. When another species becomes overpopulated, say the deer as I stated before, if they were to not be controlled in any manner they would eventually have to control their own populate. Well, what I mean by that is that the earth would control it for them. Forget humans, society, and anything man made for a minute and allow this to sink in. The deer become overpopulated, the plants they eat start decreasing and eventually disappear. So, their is no more food for them to eat. They don't move or kick out other species so they can have the area, instead they begin dying out. The population sinks to below normal and over time it is back up to the usual numbers and the plants they feed on have reappeared and managed to populate themselves as well. As stated by by another site -

Overpopulation in wild animals occurs when a population of a wild species exceeds the carrying capacity of its ecological niche. Overpopulation is a function of the number of individuals compared to the relevant resources, such as the water and essential nutrients they need to survive.

But what do we humans do? We destroy forests, land, clear cut woods and move ourselves in. We are overpopulated. Everywhere. There may be more empty land out there, but that doesn't mean we should be in it. Hell, the Colorado River is drying up because it cannot support the number of people that get their water from it. You can read all about that here: River. Earth cannot support the number of humans there are now, but we don't die out, but expand which causes even more problems. It is just the way it is.

This is a very BIG topic to respond to..

I think human waste is ridiculous,
But animal cruelty is something that is easier to target (and stop)...
I'm not saying you can't eat meat or anything, I'm more worried about the fur traders. My great-grandfather was a fur trader, but they weren't "fine furs", it was just vixens and deers, furs to keep warm. A natural part of living.

What's worse than fur traders, are cat eaters though. I'm serious. Look up the videos if you're brave enough. The treatment of animals by humans is just ridiculous. Back in the day, fur traders went out in the wild and CAUGHT animals in their habit. They had a chance. But now, animals are bred in captivity then slaughtered for food and/or fur.

I think this picture pretty much sums up how I feel about all this.
Here

I'm sure I'll have more to say, but I need to locate some old sources to actually properly form my retort.

Lol. That's a great picture.


Whisper, I have actually seen cat eaters. I made the HUGE mistake of stumbling on to the bad part of Youtube and saw a video of one of the countries to in the east boiling both cats and dogs alive to remove their fur. The hot water doesn't kill them though, they get to sit through their remaining fur being stripped off. I forgot the name of the country that this was recorded in though, but they believed that the longer an animal was tortured, the better they tasted. It is sickening.

I think its a reflection on capitalism gone crazy. We need a an ethical reform of neo-liberalism that safe guards the planet and its inhabitants. Markets and economies can be use as a positive force, but in its current form it has created so much social injustice, social inequality, and environmental crisis. The fortunate thing for us is the market is consumer driven and we are the consumer, so we do have some power. My advice is to make ethically conscious choices while buying, boycott and complain to companies who are engaging in nefarious activities, encourage other people to do the same. Get know where your products come from, the conditions which they were made. Think about supporting charities for sweatshop workers in Bangaladesh etc- be proactive because this is the only planet we got.