I hate the term as well. Is being friends with a woman such a bad thing, really? If someone is only interested in you as a friend, that should be enough. If it isn't enough, then I really do question what type of relationship this person really wanted. Are they mad because the relationship isn't sexual? Are they angry because they can't control and take ownership of her? (which isn't something you should do in a relationship anyways) If a girl says, "You're just a really good friend", is that really so terrible? It's upsetting that friendship from a woman has such little worth to a man if he's not "getting anything" out of it.

I don't get WHY women don't WANT to sleep with me. I'm a NICE GUY, they're all just WHORES.

...that tends to be the attitude I hear from self-proclaimed "nice guys," anyhow. Funny how that works.

I hate the term. I mean, boohoo you're in the friendzone. Would you rather have her/him PRETEND to like you? If they don't like you romantically or whatever, then that's not their problem. They just don't and some people need to get over it.

You know what I've realized reading this? We only ever seem to hear about the phenomenon in terms of men and women. It would be interesting to actually see what the individual reaction to a man friendzoning a man would be. As it is, it suggest larger issues than just "this person wasn't into me, boohoo". It suggest the idea that the other party IS other, and has inscrutible ways.

I'd never even considered it from that aspect of things, Bigs :O

IS this mainly a heterosexual guy thing :O

As a chick I can honestly say I've been friendzoned. But you know what. I accepted it and moved on, we still stayed friends and I found someone who really truely loved me that I loved back. I don't mind being in the friendzone.
Feralprince: Back me up here. I think at one point I might have "friendzoned" you. I am possibly one of the most oblivious people when it comes to those sorts of signals. But we're still crazy close friends and same goes for you and Matt. PS. Happy Holidays to your fam too. :3

Cardinal Biggles: You bring up an excellent point. Just based on observation, it does appear to be a cis hetero male thing. In my opinion, this is due to the way men seem to feel entitled to get what they want from women. If they can't get anything from a woman, she's deemed useless. Obviously not every man is like this, but that appears to be the general attitude. It always seems to be the "nice guys" (who aren't as nice as they think they are) who complain about this the most.

Yep, I got totally friendzoned. See, my and longy were, at that time opposite. Like most people, longy didn't date/have sex with her friends. I ONLY dated or had sex with my friends in that period of my life. The friendzone was a confusing concept for me. However, and this is critical as a reason longy and I are friends today and soon after that period where I was trying to sleep with her XD, I had other people to have sex with and later to be romantic with, and didn't actually require acceptance in that way from longy or any person in particular. That allowed me to not take that rejection personally, and allowed us to proceed with being friends without it being awkward. If I HAD taken it personally, we probably wouldn't be friends. Does what I'm saying make sense? If I were to give advice, especially to guys, it is be honest with you feelings (and out with them), have sex (safely) with lots and lots of partners, the more the better, and learn to appreciate how great sex can be when you love the person, but understand it is pretty good even if you don't (just be honest!). If you follow that, being in the "friendzone" with someone is definitely something you can move past in the friendship. Similarly though... if you CAN'T move beyond that rejection, the friendship wont be healthy and you need to recognize that, be honest with that friend, and give yourself space.

Dystopia, Elysium and Jelly all already summed up my feelings on the subject perfectly.
Virtual round of applause for this thread!

Originally Posted by PhantomLolita

Cardinal Biggles: You bring up an excellent point. Just based on observation, it does appear to be a cis hetero male thing. In my opinion, this is due to the way men seem to feel entitled to get what they want from women. If they can't get anything from a woman, she's deemed useless. Obviously not every man is like this, but that appears to be the general attitude. It always seems to be the "nice guys" (who aren't as nice as they think they are) who complain about this the most.

This was is my thinking on the subject too (in response to Biggles' very interesting point, which I've never thought about before). Not that most decent men think or feel this way, but that those that do could very well feel such due to the greater societal ill of misogyny; that there's no value in a man having a woman for a friend if he isn't going to get to sleep with her, and that she should fall at his feet for deigning to be nice to her.

Of course, there are many good, self-aware men out there that know better than to behave this way, like you lovely gentlemen on Mene, right?

I partly agree cherish, that is probably what is going on to a degree. However i think it is usually more complex then that.

First off, It is not always just about sex for men. For me for instance, it is more about partnership and emotional security/commitment. I can go to a bar or something and pretty much have sex with almost anyone (or at least someone) if that is all I'm after. If I am romantically interested in one of my friends, it has only as much to do with sex as sex is connected to love (indirectly, for me anyway).

Second, with me anyway, if I want to have sex with a friend of mine, or date them, I dont JUST want that. I want it all. If someone wants to be my friend but doesn't want to sleep with me, I'll be somewhat dissapointed, but still happy to have a new friend. If someone (that i actually enjoy speaking to) want to sleep with me but doesn't want to be my friend after the fact, I'm also somewhat dissapointed. My point is, I know all guys are not so shallow as to ONLY be thinking about sex. We might think about sex a lot, but we are not one dimensional creatures, and there are things that are more important to us.

That being said, I'm sure there are a lot of fartbags that DO behave and think in just the way you have described... however in the case of the "nice guy" he is probably not even really aware of it. Its not really his fault... he just needs to go out and get laid. Important for male confidence. Believe it or not, men want to feel pretty/attractive too, and that is the way society tells them they need to find the proof that they are worth something. Another societal disease. That guy is probably not such a great friend for you if that is what he wants from you, but it doesn't even mean he is a bad person. He is just too immature to understand how to take things how they are right now. I think any person can do this from time to time, regardless of gender.

I can see what you're saying, Feral, but I'm afraid I must disagree in part.

For you see, even if you want more than just sex -even if you want romance and companionship and love- that doesn't change the fact that being friendly with a woman does not entitle you to any more than her friendship. Being nice to her does not mean that she will fall in love with you, and that if you fail to win her heart, she's some unfathomable creature that unfairly designates you to some mystical friend zone.
It's the difference between someone saying "I want to be just friends" and you responding "oh. Okay then"; and responding "What?! But I've been so nice to you!! No other guy would be this nice to you! You're crazy, you just friend zoned me. I don't understand you! It's so unfair!!"

I'm not saying that's what you personally do, of course, I'm saying that that is what the term "friend zone" connotes. It's the sense of "otherness" that Biggles referred to.

And that's exactly what makes the self-proclaimed "Nice Guy" not nice at all.
A nice person is honest with his friends, he values their friendship as it is, and does not see it as a means to an end (even if that end is a romantic relationship, not just sex). Otherwise it's just being deceitful and manipulative.

I get what you're saying, I guess I just don't relate. I think it is totally reasonable to be disappointing, but completely unreasonable to feel like you are owed anything. I am simply trying to say that if a person feels that way, it is only due to lack of experience and wisdom about how to relate to people in general. I don't think any specific respect for women (as opposed to anyone else) is really the issue, I think that is just a general lack of empathy. I also think if that is the only kind of relationship a guy is interested in, or a woman for that matter, that is fine too as long as they are honest and strait forward about that. At least that gives the other person a clear choice. I guess all I'm saying is you can't really tell someone to feel differently, only to act differently. The rest is all up to them. Problems for them to solve in their own mind. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Maybe I'm not making any sense.

Overall though, I agree with your point, I don't think a guy who thinks that way is being nice at all. I just want to try to expand empathy and understanding in both directions.

.

Oh my, I've been gone for awhile. I sat here and read the whole thread. I'm glad hate didn't go around :D

Okay guys, I can't be the only one here that's ever dated a good friend, surely?
Most of my relationships have been with people whom I was friends with first.
Heck, my husband and I were extremely close friends for years before we even went on a first date. Yes, we were friends, besty bestest best friends. Besty bestest best friends that later fell in love and got married and had cute chubby-faced babies.

So I find the whole idea of the "friendzone" to be complete and utter nonsense.
It's not like my husband and I are a unique case. It happens to people all the time.

Perhaps the "friendzone" is just people lying to themselves because they don't want to admit that their friend just doesn't fancy them.

I don't like the term of friend zone, I also dislike the term boyfriend or girlfriend.

I have someone I love, if I had to put a term to it, he is my significant other, he means a lot to me, and for him, I am his closest friend, i know more about him than anyone else.

I dislike the terminology of the whole friend zone and boyfriend girlfriend because i find friendship is a completely different category than a romantic relationship is. I have many friendships that I value higher than romantic relationships I have had.

the nice guy/nice girl stuff, I find the true people who are nice don't value a relationship as priority one. They would rather pursue their career/life goals first, and finding a partner second. I have many friends that since leaving college, have figures this out and are not pursuing relationships because of this. Yes this means they are "finishing last" by not being married (some of my other friends are), but they are happy with their life currently as well, and know at some point they will start looking when finding a partner is a bigger priority again